I was asked the other day whether we can have more or less Holy Spirit, or do we have the whole holy Spirit the whole holy time?
Instead of answering the person directly, I thought I’d place it in the public realm to see what others think.
So let’s start up our new show, kind of like Dr. Phil or Oprah, but probably less correct most of the time (and that’s saying something)…
…that’s right…
It’s “Ask Rev. Red”. The young pretentious minister who is wrong half the time and the other half is just confused!
Concerned Living Roommate: How much Holy Spirit do we have?
Rev Red: Well, I’m always uneasy when people say that the Holy Spirit is “more active” in a place or when people ask for “a special pouring out of God’s Spirit”. I’m not really sure what they mean. Do they mean that the Holy Spirit wasn’t present or active before that point? Or only partially active? Or are they implying that, if we get the conditions just right, the lights moodily low, the music ambient and soothing, the right number of hands raised — then we’ll trigger some sort of trap-door and the Holy Spirit will pour out like Niagara Falls on the waiting hopeful?
Let’s look at the Holy Spirit in scripture. In John, the Holy Spirit is our Advocate who lives with us and is in us (14:17). By the Holy Spirit it is Jesus Christ himself who is in us. And Christ is in the Father (14:20).
There is no talk of the Spirit being “partially” in us. Just as there is no talk in the gospels of Christ only “partially” being with humanity. Christ is fully human sharing the fullness of our human life and experience (and death). Many people have tried to lobotomize Christ’s divinity from his humanity over the years. And many heretics have been consequently burnt at the stake (which I don’t condone by the way!). To say the same of the Spirit is just as dangerous. The Holy Spirit is fully with us uniting us through Christ to the Father.
The famous Psalm 139 says: “Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend to heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.”
In some ways, it is illogical to say that there is ever a time when we don’t have the Spirit with us. The Spirit of God sustains all of creation. The Spirit hovered over the waters before the creation of the world. The Spirit knit you together in your mother’s womb. While we can certainly reject the Spirit and turn in on ourselves, to say therefore that the Spirit is less with us doesn’t follow.
At Pentecost, the Holy Spirit was poured out on believers. But Peter’s address suggests that this is not a series of events (when the Spirit is poured out more or less). Rather, it is an ongoing reality that is a consequence of Christ’s resurrection and ascension. The Spirit is continually poured out on all people (2:17).
While there are certainly moments when we are more acutely and experientially aware of the Spirit’s presence, that doesn’t mean the Spirit is less in us at other times. One of the legacies of the charismatic movement in the church, is that it has elevated the personal experience of the Spirit to a very high place. Certainly these are important moments, but our faith should not be sustained by or dependent on these moments. Otherwise my experience rather than the revelation and love of God is at the centre of my faith.
There does seem to be the inconsistency here than some people do seem to have a more active or lively faith. And what about those who aren’t Christian at all? One of the great mysteries of faith is that God has chosen us unconditionally in love and grace, and yet we still have the opportunity to reject that love. It is futile path we choose, because running away from God just leads closer to God in the end (consider Jonah trying to run to Tarshish — where can we go to escape God’s Spirit?!). And yet, even as we choose a lie, that lie comes true in a way. We can live our lives in rejection of the Spirit. But that still doesn’t mean that the Spirit is not present. We’re just living in denial of it’s whole, holy, lifegiving presence.
But what are your thoughts? How do you understand the Holy Spirit?
Arohanui,
Jordan
I think it is important to distinguish between The Holy Spirit being “in” us and “upon” us. The Spirit is always with us and in us but there are special times when he is upon us to achieve or reveal something special. Often confusion between these two things causes the miss-use of language regrading this matter. Its one thing to drink a glass of water and have the water in you, its completely another to jump into a pool. Secondly it is true the charismatic movement elevated the importance of a “experiential” Christianity, however, a revelation of God or a revelation received from God should always draw us into an encounter. If the revelation of the love of God doesn’t draw you into encounter or experience, it is more likely a principle in your life rather than a revelation.
Very good point, John! The difference between “in” and “upon” is important. I wonder, does that mean we have “more” of the Holy Spirit when it is poured out upon us? I still think I would answer, no. It’s the same one, holy Spirit present but with us in a different way. I agree with you: the “pouring upon” of the Spirit is more to achieve or reveal something special. In a similar way the kings and high priests of Israel were anointed with oil to recognise their calling. There’s a connection here I think. So rather than receiving more of the Spirit we are being confirmed in our calling, anointed, set apart for a particular purpose. Would you agree?
Your second point is a good one too. Revelation draws us into encounter (and is itself the encounter). God’s revelation never remains mere words or ideas. The Word of God has creative power that forms us as a community and as individuals.
Love it! Thanks for commenting.
Well written Jordan!
I like the end of the second paragraph it reminds me discussing the last part of week four of Ephesians study where we talk about how we can be a consumer of church. focussing on this from a my experience point of view easily turns into a consumer mentality of church.
Thanks, Caleb!
I agree with you (although I take John’s point on board too). The personal experience is very important — the tension is making sure we don’t reduce our faith to the “spiritual fix” we get and (as you say) develop a consumer mentality to church.
Jordan I think you address this subject quite nicely, in terms of questioning, how do you go about reconciling in the Old Testament (or first if you’re inclined that way) when the spirit is distinctly described in coming upon a specific individual e.g. Samson or Saul. Meaning is the spirit with that one person or with entire nation of Israel or even further with the whole world?
The carry on, if we are to understand Pentecost in context how would a Jewish person understand the phrase “All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:4) is it an oral resonance reminding them of the spirit coming upon people in the OT, is it a reminder of a prophecy coming true, or is there another alternative I have yet to considered?
Hi Cameron,
Good comments! Regarding your first comment, I think I would say that the Spirit is present with us in a different way since Pentecost. Throughout the Old Testament, God’s Spirit rests on particular individuals — kings, prophets, priests etc. — and these individuals have a mediating function between God and the people (and vice versa). In the risen and ascended Christ, we have our once-and-for-all mediator. He eternally represents God to us and us to God. At Pentecost, Christ poured out his Spirit upon all believers meaning we now have direct access to the Father through the Son. That being said, I think the Spirit is still poured out on individuals, anointing particular people, setting them apart for a particular ministry (this picks up John’s point). This is reminiscent of the OT but ultimately is secondary to and flows out of our participation in Christ’s life and ministry.
Your second point is an interesting one…I’m sure Ross McKerras would be able to speak into this more meaningfully than me! I would tentatively say that the “filling of the Spirit” is more reminiscent of the breath of God filling the lungs of the first human being (Gen 2:7). In which case, Pentecost is far more than just a calling to ministry. It’s actually the inauguration of the new creation — the pouring of Christ’s new life which was achieved at the resurrection. Certainly haven’t studied the passage though — so I might be way out!